how many have had a vanos replaced

[p 5ary]

simple yes or no, if yes would you please post a simple yes so as i have your username to hand, milage when it happened, age of car and if you feel like it post the service history, full or not.

there must be some car legislation that will be applicable to this case, i mean a car and all non-perishable components must be expected to last a reasonable duration of the cars life, i do not feel i have achieved this point as have any people that buy the 3.2 S50 engined m.

if i can go forward to bmw with a long list of failed vanos i feel it may strengthen my case, and any other case that may and most likely will come to light. i feel bmw hold us to ransom to pay many hundreds of pounds for a warranty to correct their error.

sometimes the little guy wins, it has to start somewhere.

sites i can think of to post on are;

www.z3mcoupe.com
www.zroadster.net
www.e36coupe.com


if anyone can think of somewhere else to post please pm me with the website.

many many thanks for any help.

[Broccers]

Mine was replaced at circa 15000 miles on a 99 S.

[p 5ary]

Mine was replaced at circa 15000 miles on a 99 S.
thanks broccers, ill post up results and total figures for everyones info

[exdos]

p 5ary,

The almost 100% failure rate of the VANOS on the S50 is sufficient to prove on the "civil" scales of justice, where the standard of proof is based on the "balance of probability" being >50%, that the OEM VANOS is a design fault, and a part waiting to fail.

I believe that until BMW produce a replacement part which will stand the rigours of use on the S50 engine with < 1% failure rate, then it is in the position of being legally obliged to repair/replace all failed VANOS units, no matter what age or mileage the car, because, until such time, it has placed on the open market a product which is doomed to premature failure.

I think that the threat of legal action by an individual would make BMW pay a substantial contibution, if not all the cost of replacing a VANOS unit on an S50 of any age or mileage.

Spark plugs are known to have a finite lifespan and are considered to be "consumables" as is engine oil and filters and even cylinder head gaskets, but the VANOS is a required integral part of the engine and therefore can NEVER be considered as a consumable.

[Poka Ace]

Has the Vanos issue been resolved for the s54?

cheers

Paul

[exdos]

The VANOS unit on the S54 is a totally different design, and AFAIK there are no known issues with this part like there is for the S50. Presumably, in the light of experience with the S50, the designers went back to the drawing-board and "engineered-out" the design fault.

[p 5ary]

p 5ary,

The almost 100% failure rate of the VANOS on the S50 is sufficient to prove on the "civil" scales of justice, where the standard of proof is based on the "balance of probability" being >50%, that the OEM VANOS is a design fault, and a part waiting to fail.

I believe that until BMW produce a replacement part which will stand the rigours of use on the S50 engine with < 1% failure rate, then it is in the position of being legally obliged to repair/replace all failed VANOS units, no matter what age or mileage the car, because, until such time, it has placed on the open market a product which is doomed to premature failure.

I think that the threat of legal action by an individual would make BMW pay a substantial contibution, if not all the cost of replacing a VANOS unit on an S50 of any age or mileage.

Spark plugs are known to have a finite lifespan and are considered to be "consumables" as is engine oil and filters and even cylinder head gaskets, but the VANOS is a required integral part of the engine and therefore can NEVER be considered as a consumable.

very well put exodus,
that is the reason i am doing this, if i can gather a list of names, cars with failures it will undoubtedly strengthen the case, this can be made available for all .

[p 5ary]

The VANOS unit on the S54 is a totally different design, and AFAIK there are no known issues with this part like there is for the S50. Presumably, in the light of experience with the S50, the designers went back to the drawing-board and "engineered-out" the design fault.

surely this is an admission in its own right

the fact that warranty companies know this problem exists and do not cover it, its also a major concern to bmw. if its not , it should be. can anyone think of the top of their head of a company that will not cover the vanos??

i will most certainly be writing a letter to bmw and highlighting all these issues.

[woodmeister]

Whilst I no longer feel eligable to vote as I no longer have an MC, it was replaced on the car I did own at about 35k. It certainly made a difference to the general noise and feel of the car, it was even better when the potentiometer and throttle control valve were later replaced.

With S50 powered cars I'm cynical enough to believe BMW knew early on the engine had an achilles heel but rather than 'do the right thing' they let the owners take the risk and the cost. However like many things about M cars the VANOS has taken on an almost mythological reputation with many cars having surgery as a precaution rather than as a necessity.

[p 5ary]

Whilst I no longer feel eligable to vote as I no longer have an MC, it was replaced on the car I did own at about 35k. It certainly made a difference to the general noise and feel of the car, it was even better when the potentiometer and throttle control valve were later replaced.

With S50 powered cars I'm cynical enough to believe BMW knew early on the engine had an achilles heel but rather than 'do the right thing' they let the owners take the risk and the cost. However like many things about M cars the VANOS has taken on an almost mythological reputation with many cars having surgery as a precaution rather than as a necessity.

i reckon you are entitled to vote,
nothing mythological here lol
http://media.putfile.com/eng57

in the last week it has got really rattly, i hope i can make it to the dealer

[jamjar]

Mine has not been changed and Im at 72800 miles and it drives like a dream I recently put it in to bmw to get some warranty items sorted and its come out tighter than ever

Rgds

Jason

[BEN]

mine was done at 24,000 i think! 99 T reg

my old roadster was done at 35,000 on a P reg

[Nessamot II]

64K (S50 1999) , still going strong.

If you can change the poll, would love to see the below, as some members had multiple replacements and I think the failure rate on the S54 is much lower.

S50 - 0
S50 - 1
S50 - 2

S54 - 0
S54 - 1
S54 - 2

Have a great 2006

[sonu_anand]

Agreed

maybe the poll should be more selective, ie, s50 V s54

[p 5ary]

64K , still going strong.

If you can change the poll, would love to see the below, as some members had multiple replacements and I think the failure rate on the S54 is much lower.

S50 - 0
S50 - 1
S50 - 2

S54 - 0
S54 - 1
S54 - 2

Have a great 2006

it wont let me edit the pole, however it may open a can of worms with people asking whats the difference between s50 and s54, but feel free to be descriptive in the post.
at this moment i want to be able to say i have a list of 50 cars with vanos units needing replaced to show this is a design fault. at the moment ive got about 20 so the list is growing

[BMWboy]

S reg 99 S50, vanos done at 78k under warrenty and also at some point by previous owner, great idea getting a list together ! :wink:

[Superbow]

Yes, mine has been done but I don't know when it was done. When I got my s50 '1998 model it had 42k :?

[Pete S]

I have had two repalced car has only done 27,000 miles. I suspect short runs does not help

[p 5ary]

I have had two repalced car has only done 27,000 miles. I suspect short runs does not help

could be on to something there pete s, mine has done only short runs since ive got it.

cheers for commenting

[optionclick]

I have had two repalced car has only done 27,000 miles. I suspect short runs does not help

could be on to something there pete s, mine has done only short runs since ive got it.

cheers for commenting

'98 S plate - 34,000 - no problems so far although I only do short runs as well.

[Nessamot II]

Guys,

What would you consider as a 'short run'? 20 miles?

Regards

[davieb]

W reg 2000

just had mine replaced under warranty @ 40k

[wfarrell]

1999 S50 (fBMWsh) - new VANOS @ 35,000 miles

[sammyebrown]

Have you asked BMW for the number of failures - they must keep a record of these things, would be interesting to see whether they give you any figures, if they refuse, might this indicate hiding from this liability.
If the vanos issue didn't exist I would think hard about not renewing my warrenty.

As for my car, I had the whole engine & gearbox replaced this July, prsumably this included a new Vanos!
Good luck
Sam

[Zmass]

Mine was replaced by a previous owner at around 35K miles. There's now almost 80K on the clock with no further probs. It's a 1999 S50. I must admit the potential for it going again is the main reason I keep the warrany valid.

[p 5ary]

must admit it is pretty pathetic that there is a 50% chance of failure, and as the last 2 posts would support warranty is mainly taken to cover this design defect??
very interesting, bmw must be made to answer.
keep the posts coming.
thanks

[dasherdiablo1]

I had it done on my first MC at about 65k miles out of warranty. BMW paid for the part and half of the labour.....it ended up costing me £150.....however they had already replaced the idle control valve which their diagnostics check had told them was the problem and it made no difference....which meant the final bill was around the £600 mark!
This little lesson convinced me that I had to have one with extended warranty....hence buying from Woodmeister.

[MrMicko]

All of you who have had your cars vanos replaced, how did carage tell or how did you know that vanos has failed? Did it threw error code, spilled oil or was just noisy, or something else?

It is amazing that BMW doesn't fix vanos issues for free, this is obviously design error and major one! I see potential class action lawsuit... :D

[mylop]

Replcaed last year by BMW on extended warranty mileag circa

[mylop]

Sorry too quick for my own good

Replaced at 45K mileage under extended warranty

Replaced cam sensor as well

[danp]

Mine (now sold) was done at about 30k under warranty and then about 55k under goodwill.

Note that VANOS replacements could be gears (which can sound noisy) or the control unit.

Believe there are some cars out there that have had it done half a dozen times !

From my research there are actually very few cars that have actually had the VANOS fail (thus likely to cause a massive oil leak, and the engine possibly lunching itself) - but BMW have possibly set a precedence and maybe it's an admission of guilt by replacing them so often (and most usually because they are just noisy).

BMW were good at sorting engines with the nikasil bore lining issues, they *might* be persuaded to do the same with the VANOS, worth a go, good luck !

bm3w.co.uk is an excellent site of you wish to get in touch with some E36 M3 owners, plus also some tame BMW technicians (try some searches on VANOS...plenty there in the E36 / z3m forum !)

e.g.

http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB10&Number=157875&Searchpage=1&Main=157286&Words=vanos&topic=&Search=true#Post157875

[maahny]

I have voted but as we are adding notes...mine has done 48k and still on the original vanos. I bought a vanos oil filter a couple of weeks ago but have not had the chance to change it yet.

[p 5ary]

thanks lads for all the votes and comments,

update from other sites
e36 11 yes 16 no
z roadster 11 yes 12 no

the list is growing

one of the members on e36 forum has posted his vanos was replaced as part of a recall, ive asked him to explain that further, will post when i have more details

thanks all, keep it coming

[p 5ary]

heres the link for the m coupe recall list, emm anyone have a password lol

http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/BMW/M_Coupe_(E36;0;7).html

120299 may 99, motorsport engine recall, can anyone expand on this??
seems to be talking about the vanos

i cant see the s50 engine for the m coupe, only m3 :x and even at that its only the 3.0lt

[gsi]

There was the recall for the VANOS bolts, it could just be that - rather than the whole unit (something which I've never heard of).

[BEN]

my old roadster had the bolts done under recall to, and it was a LHD!

[murphthemog]

Mine was done recently at 77k, which I think is its first one. Engine smoked badly, then dropped most of its oil on the road, so I guess it was a real failure rather than a false alarm.

[dick dastardly]

I believe my car had it done at about 40K

[Rags]

So, did this ever materialise?

[fastdrive]

my vanos never broken
The last inspection changed the oil and the my specialist tell stay in perfect condition
My car have 55.000 km :wink:

[airassltengr]

My first S50 had had 5 previous owners and only 24K on the clock!! It was a 99 (T). I noticed a slight oil leak at about the 35K miles mark so took it into my local BMW dealer - the first thing they did was change the VANOS.

I bought my current MC, which is a S50 98 (S), from a Main Dealer with 60K on the clock. Knowing more about the S50 VANOS issue I asked if it had been replaced in the past - I was informed it had been but no mileage was given that I can remember. The car now has 73K on the clock and the engine has never given me cause for concern (no oil leaks, minimal oil usage and no bearing chatter). I have had various warranty jobs and services carried out since I bought her and I always get the workshop to pressure test the VANOS for piece of mind. So far it's been given a clean bill of health every time.

Hope this helps in your quest.

[gerry]

Hope this is not going to come back and slap me in the face
my car has turned 30k and purrs like a kitten on speed and
is still the original vanos.Gerry 8)

[outrun]

Hey ho

Just voted to help the quest with BMW. Mine was done in 2004 under warranty. It's been fine since. I think a 50% failure rate definately represents a far greater issue than normal manufacturing issues or design issues would allow for.

Happy to support an a wee claim against BMW, they know it's an issue and should have done more about it. Especially silly seeing as the 100 core MC owners are exactly the people they should be looking at to sell a z4MC to. They shoudln't need a multinational marketing firm to tell them that.

[danp]

FYI I just had my VANOS replaced on my 1998 M3 Evo (95k miles) with all the parts paid for under goodwill by BMW (I paid the labour)

My local BMW dealer was told that my car was "beyond goodwill limits" but a letter to BMW customer services seemed to do the trick. I must say thanks to exdos, as I used some of his arguments in it.

I had the VANOS gears and control unit replaced (which is what is normally done) but also insited that the sprockets were replaced (these also have helical teeth which mesh with the VANOS gears (and are not always replaced).

I am told that the VANOS now performs and sounds exactly how it should do, but a noisy air con compressor means my engine is slightly growly still ! (the BMW tech ran it with the a/c disconnected and said it was fine)

This means the VANOS is also now guaranteed by BMW for 2yrs, which is nice to have...esp as the car had got through 3 sets of VANOS transmission in around 35k miles (before I bought it !)

[BenH]

for the record - my VANOS gears were replaced under warranty recently just before I let it expire, about 80,000 miles, and I think it was on original parts up to that point (Rolls Royce?).

[Superbow]

I had a M3 evo with over 120k on the clock and during the 35k miles that I did in it the vanos was ok. In my mc, after nearly three years, it also has been ok. :lol:

[Rags]

FYI I just had my VANOS replaced on my 1998 M3 Evo (95k miles) with all the parts paid for under goodwill by BMW (I paid the labour)

My local BMW dealer was told that my car was "beyond goodwill limits" but a letter to BMW customer services seemed to do the trick. I must say thanks to exdos, as I used some of his arguments in it.

I had the VANOS gears and control unit replaced (which is what is normally done) but also insited that the sprockets were replaced (these also have helical teeth which mesh with the VANOS gears (and are not always replaced).

I am told that the VANOS now performs and sounds exactly how it should do, but a noisy air con compressor means my engine is slightly growly still ! (the BMW tech ran it with the a/c disconnected and said it was fine)

This means the VANOS is also now guaranteed by BMW for 2yrs, which is nice to have...esp as the car had got through 3 sets of VANOS transmission in around 35k miles (before I bought it !)

A few questions dan.

Did you car have a full bmw SH?

And did your vanos actually fail, or did you have growling gears?

Rags

[danp]

The last couple of services have been at an Indy, but BMW did not ask about this.

Nope the VANOS had not failed, was growly and idling a bit erratically...as mentioned the air conditioning compressor also appears to be contributing to this, so may well have been a waste of time doing the VANOS ! (apart from the fact it is now guaranteed). Would suggest checking that out if people think it's the VANOS - as some of the cars must be approaching 6 figure mileages like mine.

The dealer that I used "diagnosed" VANOS issues a while back (not the full test on a machine, he just listened to it and drove it). A specialist also reckoned it needed doing, whereas another BMW dealer said not to bother (and said he'd heard a lot worse)...Before forking out any significant costs I would recommend getting BMW to test the VANOS electronically (abt 30mins labour iirc)

The same dealer that "diagnosed" and replaced my VANOS also said I needed a new clutch and probably flywheel (but a braided hose solved my poor gearshift) so I take what that particular tech said with more than a pinch of salt...he said he could do all the work for me in his spare time, cheaper than BMW...

They had also replaced the gearbox and clutch under EW (before I got it) probably unnecessarily again :roll: The tech that actually did the work seemed much better however, had a good chat to him, he also gave me all the old VANOS gears and sprockets etc (plus a spare set that weren't needed), I'll use them as paperweights :D

So still not sure that anyone on here has had a VANOS fail yet ?!


NB as has been alluded to previously (I think this stuff got deleted when the server crashed), you *do* seem to get VANOS gears supplied if you buy sprockets (as they mesh together). [hence my spare set of gears]. iirc sprockets are approx £500 each :shock:

The normal "fix" by BMW is to replace the VANOS control / transmission unit (the silver box on the front of the engine - approx £1000) which has VANOS gears and electrical solenoids in it....from research the solenoids rarely play up. It's thus a bit of a waste of time replacing these - it's the VANOS gears and the sprockets they mesh with that wear, thus causing the growl plus poor running. If just the gears are replaced you *may* well still get the issue, tho' this did improve things on my z3mc.

As BMW were paying for all the parts I was happy for them to replace the control unit plus the sprockets, but if I was paying would just buy the sprockets (and get the gears for free), or look into alternatives.

[Col]

Mines on 68k miles and still on the original Vanos Unit, however if i'd have gone with BMW's recommendations instead of the indi i would be in the replacement camp.

The only thing which has been changed was the bolts which hold the unit on, this was the original problem whereby they would shear off causing rapid of loss of oil pressure followed by engine failure.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is what started the whole Vanos myth, I like others have yet to hear of a unit actually failing?

I've also been told by various indi's that even if you have new unit installed this won't necessarily guarantee noise reduction :?:
I think the there is a design issue which makes them inherently noisy, but i'm not sure this means it should be replaced.

According to BMW mine should have failed along time ago :roll:

[Rags]

The gears cause the noise and on the s54's there is a change to one of the parts where the gears mesh iirc.

I would like to take this approach with my dealer.

Could you give us a job number or something to aid me in my task to get mine replaced.

[murphthemog]

My vanos 'failed' at about 70k miles. No odd noises or anything, car just lost all its oil on the motorway, and had to pull over. No previous history of any problems at all. Well, not with the engine anyway. BMW replaced vanos unit under EW, but I never saw it so I don't know how worn it was. BM Technician put it down to vanos failure, but it sounds more as if the bolts failed. This is apparently quite common, and they should be changed often.
Car comes out of EW soon, and will be looked after by Phil Crouch of CPC in Uxbridge. His advice is to change the bolts with each major service, and there should be no problems.

[danp]

Could you give us a job number or something to aid me in my task to get mine replaced.

D 1136520 is Replace VANOS transmission unit

[Rags]

My vanos 'failed' at about 70k miles. No odd noises or anything, car just lost all its oil on the motorway, and had to pull over. No previous history of any problems at all. Well, not with the engine anyway. BMW replaced vanos unit under EW, but I never saw it so I don't know how worn it was. BM Technician put it down to vanos failure, but it sounds more as if the bolts failed. This is apparently quite common, and they should be changed often.
Car comes out of EW soon, and will be looked after by Phil Crouch of CPC in Uxbridge. His advice is to change the bolts with each major service, and there should be no problems.

Phil knows his shit :lol:
What he doesn't know about M cars probably isn't worth knowing.

[ChrisXL]

I'm on 87K, P reg S50, now, did not have to replace the VANOS, no failure.

At 86K I did refurb the VANOS.
Opened it up to see in what state it was and saw that one of the solenoids was slightly worn.
Since it was open anyway, might aswell refurb it then.
Better to be safe than sorry.
Replaced both solenoids and the bolts (which looked fine).

I'll have to vote a yes.......... but it should have been a no

[Rags]

Can you explain how you 'refurbished' the vanos?

[ChrisXL]

Simple, opened it up, replaced gaskets, solenoids, rings etc

No use in replacing the whole VANOS, especially if we have the parts in stock here :roll:
Cheaper solution instead of having to order a complete new unit from BMW

[Rags]

was it an easy job?

[ChrisXL]

yeah......... if you know what you're doing it is :twisted:
But then again anything would be easy then.

Takes about 2-2,5 hours to do everything.
We do this as a service for our S50 customers. Instead of having to pay the full price at the $tealers, we refurb the damn thing for 1/3 of the price :shock:

[Rags]

:shock:

I havent been to holland for a while :shock:

[ChrisXL]

8) ......... Amsterdam is nice this time of year :roll:

[c_w]

yeah......... if you know what you're doing it is :twisted:
But then again anything would be easy then.

Takes about 2-2,5 hours to do everything.
We do this as a service for our S50 customers. Instead of having to pay the full price at the $tealers, we refurb the damn thing for 1/3 of the price :shock:

You sound very knowledgable on this so what oil do you use/recommend for the S50?

[ChrisXL]

Heavens........ me knowledgable??? :shock:

well somewhat maybe........ I work for a race company, we only race BMW 3.0 and 3.2 S50 & S54 oh.......... and the V8 M5 (which is fitted in a Z3 Coupe BTW)

As for oil, basically any A-.brand 0w-30 or 0w-40 will do. We have always used Castrol.

[Rags]

Another oil grade added to can of worms :lol: