Convince me, please

[Gary H]

Hi all

Having decided I need to replace my weekend toy, for general hooliganism and the odd track day, after much deliberation I came up with a short-list of 5 cars. Budget is £20K including any mods (brakes/induction/exhaust)

5) BMW E39 M5: The most awesome saloon, but driving another exec saloon for anything between 2.5 and 3.5k miles a month, I don't think the M5 would be "special" enough for a weekend blat...does that make sense?
4) VX220 Turbo: Awesome little firecracker...but a little too hardcore and somewhat limited touring ability.

so, two ruled out and now the 3 on my shortlist:

3) TVR Tuscan S. Sheer drama, sheer performance. Would it be a sheer nightmare?
2) 911 (996) Carrera 2. An icon. Always wanted one...actually always wanted a Turbo, do would I be selling myself short?

and of course,
1) The M Coupe. Love the looks, love the rarity. Within budget, and could do the mods and end up with 340ish (?) bhp, which would do.

So has anyone done a back-to-back with the Carrera and how did they compare ?
What else did you consider before getting the MC?
And why and what still impresses you about your car?
Would love to know! Cheers

G

[BEN]

personal choice for me would be the MC then the VX220 turbo!

you will need to find a good car then spend about £3k on it!

the turbo will only really cost you a remap then you will be looking at 240bhp

[Lee]

for me it would be the MC or the 996 C2.

I love the look and sound of the Tuscan S but my modded MC used to run rings around the Tuscan on track.

for driver enjoyment with a lot of charachter and a real sense of exclusivity then it has to be the MC.

the 996 C2 is very clinical, ultimately has a higher status level but not as involving to drive. cheaper warranty on the 911 however.

for the money you will be looking at a 3.4 C2 which have had their problems.

close call but the MC would possibly clinch it for me at that price, you could have a loverly car for 14-15k and spend a few quid and be in a real weapon.

Personally for £20k I would be buying a 911 C2 (964 1990ish) for about 12k and spending the rest on suspension, brakes, seats, cage and later down the line a supercharger :-)


good luck with your decisions, I love buying cars.... enjoy it!!!

Lee

[jules78]

I'd go the Coupe, purely for a rarity and the drama of the coupe. It's noisier than the porche, more of a handfull and just more interesting.

[Gary H]

Thanks for the all the inputs so far guys.

Lee -

"Personally for £20k I would be buying a 911 C2 (964 1990ish) for about 12k and spending the rest on suspension, brakes, seats, cage and later down the line a supercharger :-)"

Could you not do the same with an MC?

[BEN]

Thanks for the all the inputs so far guys.

Lee -

"Personally for £20k I would be buying a 911 C2 (964 1990ish) for about 12k and spending the rest on suspension, brakes, seats, cage and later down the line a supercharger :-)"

Could you not do the same with an MC?

minus the supercharger yes, its not going to happen, the car will fall to pieces!

[Gary H]

Thanks Ben. Mmm...so you'd give this a wide berth:

http://www.da-motorsport.com/projeler/mz3/mz3_en.htm

?

Lee - so where's part 5?! Fascinated to hear the Top Gear story!

[BEN]

you have to spend £0000's on getting the whole car reinforced to handle the extra power.

its also finding someone who can do it well enough, stay well clear of CA they havent got a clue!

[Lee]

Thanks for the all the inputs so far guys.

Lee -

"Personally for £20k I would be buying a 911 C2 (964 1990ish) for about 12k and spending the rest on suspension, brakes, seats, cage and later down the line a supercharger :-)"

Could you not do the same with an MC?

I did do it with the MC except for cage and Supercharger.

I love lines of classic porsches and also the noise they make are hard to beat

about the supercharger.... check the vid on this page, press the play button in the box. watch it to the end :D

http://www.tpcracing.us/products/superchargers/porsche_993_964_supercharger_kit.html

[Gary H]

Ooh - now that is tempting...[:D]

As far as who do to do the work - I'm a firm believer in sticking with the same person to build a relationship...VW aside (where I've made some real clangers), for my BM's (and I've had a few) I only trust Phil Crouch - CPC - works out of Birds' facilities in Uxbridge. His knowledge is truly staggering and having someone you know and trust to work on the BM would actually be a contributory factor for actually buying the MC

[MGR]

911 (996) Carrera 2 for £20K surely thats going to be a nasty car. I reckon for the budget of around £15K plus £5K mods the M coupe is one of the more interesting cars you can own without having any major practicality/reliability issues (vanos aside). Its got a very individual/sporting look, its reliability is pretty good, its ok to do long journeys in but also a laugh on the track. Its also not so hard core that you can't use it every day if you want to.

However if you want 450bhp then its not really the car for it. Spend the extra on mods like the suspension etc and maybe just a remap or something with modest power gains.

I'd go for the M coupe out of your list with the £20K budget. If I had £30K I'd go for the 996 C2 on that list but then maybe if I had £30K I might invest in a noble etc especially if it was a 2nd car.

A lot of these things is down to personal opinion and also what you are going to use the car most for. I expect there are a lot of people who disagree with what i've just said.

I don't think you can go far wrong with a M coupe for entertainment value - its not the fastest or best handling car i've owned but it is the most entertaining to drive.

[Gary H]

"but it is the most entertaining to drive"

'Nuff said. Thank you!

[Gary H]

Although...

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?nU=0&make=PORSCHE&model=911&min_pr=15000&max_pr=22500&postcode=RG7%201DN&miles=40&max_records=200&modelexact=1&photo=1&hassearched=Y&start=10&distance=33&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200730292052592

:crazy:

[maahny]

Yes Phil Crouch definitely knows his M cars. We use him for a lot of our installation work.

Lee's idea with the old Porsche does sound interesting but if it is going to be a road car as well the MC looks like nothing else on the road.

[SilentBob]

For me up to around 20k it would be a 993 rather than a 996 especially if fun and track days are involved. Think the 996 is probably the "better" car but for sunny weekends this would be fun....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/211976.htm

Bob

[buckieblake]

For me up to around 20k it would be a 993 rather than a 996 especially if fun and track days are involved. Think the 996 is probably the "better" car but for sunny weekends this would be fun....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/211976.htm

Bob


I just bought that car, always wanted a Porsche 993.

Sad to sell my M Coupe, been a joy to own.!

[c_w]

Nice, love the look of those turbo[look] 993s.

[Chris]

For me up to around 20k it would be a 993 rather than a 996 especially if fun and track days are involved. Think the 996 is probably the "better" car but for sunny weekends this would be fun....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/211976.htm

Bob


Thats pure automotive porn, and for 18K i want one!

Buckieblake, have you just bought that actual car? If so, you're a lucky c@nt! :cheers2:

Oh, and Lee, there's a great reg plate for you on that 993 :)

[Lee]

Thats pure automotive porn, and for 18K i want one!

Buckieblake, have you just bought that actual car? If so, you're a lucky c@nt! :cheers2:

Oh, and Lee, there's a great reg plate for you on that 993 :)


loving the plate, I have a nice 911 plate for swap!!

[buckieblake]

Hi,

Yes, as soon as I saw the advert, called him (what a nice guy, family man), arranged the funds and left him a deposit. I am hoping to collect this weekend.

Few Months back, my brother bought a 997 C2s, was as envious as hell, loved the noise etc. He sold it and bought a V8 Vantage, I set my heart on getting a Porsche but at a more realistic budget than his £65k....

It looks like a cracking car and has been well loved. I got the same feeling when I bought my MC and it's been the best car I owned, never put a foot wrong and am sure I will sell her with no problems.

Will let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks

[Gary H]

So you'll be looking to sell your MC?....:yesnod:

[Lee]

Hi,

Yes, as soon as I saw the advert, called him (what a nice guy, family man), arranged the funds and left him a deposit. I am hoping to collect this weekend.

Few Months back, my brother bought a 997 C2s, was as envious as hell, loved the noise etc. He sold it and bought a V8 Vantage, I set my heart on getting a Porsche but at a more realistic budget than his £65k....

It looks like a cracking car and has been well loved. I got the same feeling when I bought my MC and it's been the best car I owned, never put a foot wrong and am sure I will sell her with no problems.

Will let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks

Just had a proper look, looks like a lovely car, love the turbo rear spoiler!

I love Porsche ownership and I prefer the 993 shape over the 996 but I wanted the modern car I could put silly miles on.

Keep us posted!

Lee

[exdos]

I was at the Silverstone Classic event on Saturday, I saw at least a hundred Porsches there but just 2 MCs (mine and another forum member's).

[h4pry]

MC's are just so rare and unique in a way. For your £££ it's a very exclusive car.

I can't think of anything else like it...

[David1975]

I was at the Silverstone Classic event on Saturday, I saw at least a hundred Porsches there but just 2 MCs (mine and another forum member's).


That sums up why i wanted an MC over anything anywhere near its price.........that and it looks like nothing else on the road

[russ3ll]

For me up to around 20k it would be a 993 rather than a 996 especially if fun and track days are involved. Think the 996 is probably the "better" car but for sunny weekends this would be fun....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/211976.htm

Bob

god dont say that too loudly.....you'll be shot by the aircooled 911 squad...if i ever have to listen to a debate about 996 v 993 again i'll shoot myself. Having spent a lot of time on Porsche forums (being an ex owner) I'd stay well well well clear of a 20k 996...there's an alarming number of 996's from the age you;d be looking a suffering from RMS leaks (ok so that effect circa 50% of 996's and boxsters) and worse still intermediate shaft failure...plus you can only slap an OPC warranty on a car up to its 9th birthday...year 10 they wont touch it. Thats said the Hartech scheme comes highly recomended.

[russ3ll]

I was at the Silverstone Classic event on Saturday, I saw at least a hundred Porsches there but just 2 MCs (mine and another forum member's).

You werent looking hard enough as mine was there!!!!! Minus me....I let someone else take it for a play...never again!

[Gary H]

Whilst it was always the iconic 993 Turbo I lusted after, I do like my creature comforts (like a dashboard, for example), so it would have to be a 996. But as it would have to be a Turbo, it will have to wait a few years I reckon.

So thanks all... the hunt for my MC starts in earnest!

(PS - Has anyone got 'definitive' performance figures for the MC?)

[MGR]

Whilst it was always the iconic 993 Turbo I lusted after, I do like my creature comforts (like a dashboard, for example), so it would have to be a 996. But as it would have to be a Turbo, it will have to wait a few years I reckon.

So thanks all... the hunt for my MC starts in earnest!

(PS - Has anyone got 'definitive' performance figures for the MC?)

These seem hard to come by. From experience 0-60 in high 4s and 0-100 in high 11s seems to be about right.

evo mag quotes 0-60 in 4.3s and 0-100 in 11.6s. 4.3s seems just too fast for me. 11.6s is just about believeable but i would say probably just under 12s is more representative. Its very similar to an E46 M3 in a straight line and that does 0-100 in roughly 12s.

A stock s54 M coupe ran 13.5 secs when I was at santa pod for the 1/4 mile and could probably have been improved slightly.

So no Difinitive figures but hope this gives you a rough idea.

What these figures don't show you is that 3rd gear is good for 110 mph and 2nd is good for around 75 ish so its very flexible. I expect if 0-110 mph figures were availiable then the M coupe would post a very fast time.

[c_w]

The S50 won't make those speeds, more like 70 and 105 unless the limiter has been raised.

My S50 sometimes feels really quick and a following 997 didn't seem to make any ground 2nd and 3rd, other times it feels more sluggish, maybe it's very fuel sensitive??

Gary, isn't/wasn't your Golf about 350bhp!??

[MGR]

The S50 won't make those speeds, more like 70 and 105 unless the limiter has been raised.



Thats interesting looks like the gear ratios are different for an S54 and S50.

Mine will easily make 110 in 3rd possibly slightly more and the rev limiter is at the normal place ~ 7600

[c_w]

The ratios are the same I think the S54 has a higher rev limiter? or just pulls higher?

[MGR]

Not sure my rev limiter cuts in at 7600

[exdos]

According to information at http://www.368s.com/tools/rpm
in a S54 MC with a 3.15 diff at the rev limit of 7600 rpm the speeds in all gears is:
1st 42.1
2nd 71.2
3rd 106.9
4th 143.1
5th 177.4
R 46.1

I think my 3rd gear gives a slightly higher speed than that, even allowing for over-recording by the speedo. I'll check next time I go out.

[c_w]

Yea that sounds about what mine does, close to 70, then about 105 in 2nd and 3rd, going to about 7400rpm.

[MrMicko]

Speeds also depend on tyre size. I love this calculator:
http://www.368s.com/tools/rpm

[fastdrive]

my idea.
an boxster s 260cv it's an great car,for the track need olny to change stainless and an pair of pagid my brother own one and it's an really fine and for many thinkg it's better of the m coupe,same for the carrera 3.4 but many in italy eard to blow the motor around 50-60k milies...
The m5 e39 an my friend own one from an month,1-2 gear goes better the mine,the 3 seems goes same,4 start to take 4-5 metres,after 220km/h start to goes more fast ,similar an 997 carrera s..
One day we goes on the track and the car it's more heavy,dont turn into the slow curves and naturally goes really slow...
The m5 it's great car,but it's good to drive at over 130mph on the highway for the rest it's one time million better the m coupe...
The speedster turbo,for the lap times i dont think give more second to an m whit brakes suspension and track tyres,in my case i meet one in mugello and i give to him 2-3 second for lap,anyway if you want use more on track the cost of mantanience is the half compared to the m coupe,the tyres and pads cost nearly the half and resist the double..
Anyway an m coupe in stock condition,especially brake ,isn't more fast on the track and need many works and dont cost few,an carrera if dont blow is an good deal but the emotion to drive an beast especially on the road the m coupe is better choose..

[Broccers]

Although...

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/CARS_popup.jsp?nU=0&make=PORSCHE&model=911&min_pr=15000&max_pr=22500&postcode=RG7%201DN&miles=40&max_records=200&modelexact=1&photo=1&hassearched=Y&start=10&distance=33&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200730292052592

:crazy:

Had a mate follow us round Donington in one of those ... left him for dead on standard suspension and a front sway bar.

Buy a coupe, you'll be able to find it easily in a car park.