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  • #16
    Originally posted by Spooks View Post
    Very interesting post indeed and does make a lot of sense.

    I think the improved looks of a BBK is what a lot of people are buying them for, something i must admit does appeal to me. Like you say though, back to back testing is the way to prove it technically, subjectively will be something different!
    I'll admit to lusting after a nice set of AP Racing calipers to fit behind my BBS RXIIs, but I've resisted because I doubt if they'll make any significant difference to my braking, especially since I've not encountered any problems with the brakes.
    /// Exdos ///
    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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    • #17
      A lot of it is down to feel, which a rigid multipot gives over a sliding caliper (even with solid guides it will never be as rigid as a fixed caliper ). And also even pad wear, depending on how aggressive the pads are some of mine have a lot of taper after a trackday as the caliper twists a fair amount.

      That said with decent pads and cooling the brake performance can be very good.

      I think what lets M cars down is the caliper setup (poor cooling) and average pads which fade easily so that at trackwork shows them up badly. It's a shame as they go to the lengths of putting reasonable sized floating discs which get bigger with every M car iteration. M3 CSL discs are about 340mm or something but the caliper is essentially the same as the E36 M3/M Coupe (shares same pads). Obviously one of the biggest factors in braking is the disc diameter but a nice caliper set up finishes it off with several performance benefits.
      Last edited by c_w; 10-11-2011, 12:06 PM.

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      • #18
        One of the options which was discussed before was posted by Dave:

        "you can buy a kit from Rallyroad which alloys you to use a E46 M3 325mm front disc and Porsche Brembo 4 pot caliper which can be used with a 17" wheel

        http://www.rallyroad.net/content/bmw...apter-brackets

        Are the E46 M3 325mm front discs floating as the "note" on teh webpage confused me a little?
        2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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        • #19
          Yes the OEM E46 M3 front discs are floating. The rears aren't (like our Coupes). This setup sounds like a good setup to me as long as it definitely fits under 17s (ideally without spaces but I suspect that is no the case!).

          I read the note to say that you can run the caliper upgrade on the rear too on standard discs or upgrade to a same diameter floating disc that rallyroad sell. Not really needed on the rear though IMO.

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          • #20
            I will email them and ask the question.

            Just thought, will the ABS still be compatible with non OEM calipers do you know?
            2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Spooks View Post
              I will email them and ask the question.

              Just thought, will the ABS still be compatible with non OEM calipers do you know?
              ABS will work fine

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              • #22
                I've forgotten to mention that I fitted solid bushings on my brakes about 6 years ago, which must help.

                When I was at Spa, I had 10 continuous passenger laps in a E92 M3 which the driver had hired for the day, so this car was on track way more than if he'd owned it. It was much quicker than a MC and it still only had standard 2 pot OEM brakes (albeit with 360mm discs) and I didn't notice any brake fade, nor did the driver say he noticed any at all, and he was staying on track for about 45mins at a time, and we were passed just twice (by GT3s), and the track was full of high powered machinery at the time.
                Last edited by exdos; 10-11-2011, 05:24 PM.
                /// Exdos ///
                "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'll be honest, I like to stamp on my brakes on track. A real last minute shove and then to trail brake through the corner with hopefully a bit of controlled drift!!!

                  The brakes work on the MC, they maybe just don't suite my track driving style. The bottom line is I want to be able to do the above in my M Coupe and I cannot do this at the moment.

                  It's been great reading all the info. on this post, I'll be honest and say that IMO big brakes look better and therefore should work better. Ignorant I know, but I want to be able to stamp on my brakes on track lap after lap.

                  The cooling going to come first with some CL pads, I've booked Bedford with Javalin on the 3rd so lets see how this performs.

                  PS - Javelin are very relaxed and it's only £120 for the day on the GT circuit!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by c_w View Post
                    Yes the OEM E46 M3 front discs are floating. The rears aren't (like our Coupes). This setup sounds like a good setup to me as long as it definitely fits under 17s (ideally without spaces but I suspect that is no the case!).

                    I read the note to say that you can run the caliper upgrade on the rear too on standard discs or upgrade to a same diameter floating disc that rallyroad sell. Not really needed on the rear though IMO.
                    Hmm this should be ok given that the recommended winter tyres for an e46 m3 are 17's. And the 996 calippers are relatively small and flat.

                    Regardind the use of CL RC6 brakes - make sure you wash the car right after the track day. These are one of the dustiest pads I have ever used, on top of that the dust looks slightly reddish so if you leave it for too long it will be very difficult to be removed. Did this mistake on my yellow mustang and had to go for full machine polishing. Stopping power is awesome, also hard to overheat, just make sure you slamm the pedal everytime (I used to brake long and slowly) to avoid building up pad deposit which will cause heavy vibrations under braking.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by oxam View Post
                      Hmm this should be ok given that the recommended winter tyres for an e46 m3 are 17's.
                      That's interesting to know. I will message John as well and see how he has found the fitment of his stoptech kit.
                      2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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                      • #26
                        I found the comment below on a forum, which I think makes an awful lot of sense:
                        "Remember with any car running ABS - if your current brakes are able to engage ABS that is as good as it gets without changing your tires. That's the physics of the situation."

                        When people blame their OEM brakes for poor performance does the problem not actually lie with their tyres?
                        /// Exdos ///
                        "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I think that's true if you're locking them but if they are fading before that point then brakes are the problem?
                          2002 '52 S54 - Titanium Silver with 18" BBS LMs, AP Racing BBK, KW V3, H&R anti roll bars & ACS flippers (previously 2000 'X' S50 - Arctic Silver)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Spooks View Post
                            I think that's true if you're locking them but if they are fading before that point then brakes are the problem?
                            I agree with that.

                            Another factor which may be contributory to brake fade would be the excessive pitching and rolling of the MC with OEM suspension, where under heavy braking there is considerable weight-shifting to the front wheels, which could upset the designated brake biasing, causing an excessive heat cycle in one or both of the front brakes whilst the rear brakes are under-utilisied because they are relatively unloaded? Localised boiling of the brake fluid could occur close to one of the calipers, which would not be transferred along the brake pipes to all the brake fluid in the system. Repeated heavy braking with short duty cycles could soon produce such a situation, especially if the brakes are still applied when the car is turning so that the outside front wheel bears a lot of the car's weight.
                            Last edited by exdos; 11-11-2011, 10:23 AM.
                            /// Exdos ///
                            "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by oxam View Post
                              Hmm this should be ok given that the recommended winter tyres for an e46 m3 are 17's. And the 996 calippers are relatively small and flat.

                              Regardind the use of CL RC6 brakes - make sure you wash the car right after the track day. These are one of the dustiest pads I have ever used, on top of that the dust looks slightly reddish so if you leave it for too long it will be very difficult to be removed. Did this mistake on my yellow mustang and had to go for full machine polishing. Stopping power is awesome, also hard to overheat, just make sure you slamm the pedal everytime (I used to brake long and slowly) to avoid building up pad deposit which will cause heavy vibrations under braking.
                              Can you confirm that the CL RC6 pads don't squeal, I do use the car in the rush hour sometimes and can't stand squealling brakes!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                At the moment I have a 993 C2 which I'm restoring into a RS rep, this does have decent sized 4 pot brembo's on the front which easily fit into the 17" rims on it, I pretty sure that some 993's had 16" rims as standard!

                                Are these brakes the same as the 996's or are the 996's larger?

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