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Best choice for Vanos O-rings ?

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  • Best choice for Vanos O-rings ?

    Hi,

    Vanos unit in these S50B32 engines really makes life hilarious

    I have been through the following in my -99 M Coupe (so far) :

    - at about 67 tkm replaced both inlet and exhaust solenoid O-rings with BMW OEM parts (nitrile material ? Did not know any better at that time ...)

    - at about 89 tkm replaced the same with Viton O-rings when changing into high tensile bolts for the solenoid and piston covers

    - at 110 tkm experienced a failure with the internal piston seals leading to power loss and idle issues. This was remedied by changing the whole Vanos unit into a unused factory serviced unit (Rols Royce)

    - now, at 117 tkm I just noticed that the solenoid O-rings have started to leak again !!!

    I trusted that the factory service unit would have been serviced with higher quality O-rings than the original ones. No, this seems not to be the case !

    Please provide your advice and comments whether it would be best to use

    1) "Normal" Viton O-rings ( for example here http://www.mrvanos.com/E36-M3-S50-B3...1848237%29.htm )

    2) E39 M5 S62 multifacet Viton O-rings ( recommended by Beisan Systems http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm )

    3) Buy Porsche Cayman

    4) Something else, what ?

    Beisan System says :

    "The vanos solenoid O-rings also fail and in some cases and cause external oil leak. These O-rings are made from Buna and harden and flatten.
    Replacing the O-rings with Viton O-rings has proven to not work. The Viton O-rings shred from the high oil pressure. BMW has redesigned the solenoid O-rings for the S62 engine (E39 M5) vanos unit. The S62 vanos solenoids are the same as the Euro S50 vanos solenoids and share the same O-rings. The new S62 solenoid O-rings are not only made from Viton but also have multiple facets. These facets function to divert oil flow away from the O-ring and keep it from shredding. The new S62 vanos solenoid O-rings are the correct design and can be used for this vanos solenoid O-rings."


    I have all the time used the Castrol 10W60 BMW M approved "TWS" oil and warmed the engine up to 90 C oil temperature before dropping the hammer.

    Luckily, replacing the solenoid O-rings alone is not a big job but nevertheless throws a shadow on the quality of the original parts.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    br, Juha
    The older I get, the faster I was ...
    BMW HP2 Sport
    ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

  • #2
    I would fit number 2 - multifacet Viton

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    • #3
      Yes, I will try those special multifacet Viton O-rings. Seems to be the logical choice as I have already tried all the other O-ring alternatives.

      If that fails, I will really consider option 3) ...
      The older I get, the faster I was ...
      BMW HP2 Sport
      ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

      Comment


      • #4
        Did the "Inspection 2.5" service yesterday to the Vanos unit :
        https://v2tre.wordpress.com/2015/09/...and-m5-design/

        The solenoid seals are now the E39 M5 improved type of Viton material. In the pics the Viton rings are the brown coloured.

        Due to their multifacet design, the solenoid O-rings require carefull attention when installed so that they will settle into the correct position without twists.

        Leak has now been cured and we will see how long they can take the punishment

        PS : The OEM black nitrile rubber rings were already flattened during the first 7000 km and started to leak. This material is really not suitable to these cars. In one of the pictures you can also see the exhaust piston cover O-ring, which had been messed up already at the "factory service". However, that did not yet cause a leak.
        Last edited by JuhaV; 13-09-2015, 05:01 AM. Reason: PS
        The older I get, the faster I was ...
        BMW HP2 Sport
        ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

        Comment


        • #5
          Lets hope the new O-rings last a lot longer

          Comment


          • #6
            The Vanos unit is a joke. Very bad from BMW.

            Vanos works with high pressure, high temp oil. Then design the seals using material that 1 can't stand heat, 2 can't handle the pressure.

            Seriously?

            I'm happy others jumped on this opportunity and provide us with these kits, making Vanos problems not a big headache anymore and neither draining our wallets with BMW only being able to sell you a complete unit. Which still comes with the same bad seals.

            So we actually make it better than new.

            I rebuilt my unit back in May and also used the upgraded M5 noid seals.

            Funny enough, the ETK still lists the original seals for the (Z) M3.

            Comment


            • #7
              JuhaV & MParallel, what oil and service intervals are you doing?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by c_w View Post
                JuhaV & MParallel, what oil and service intervals are you doing?
                Oil plus filter once a year. M is not a daily. I do my own service. No set interval.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by c_w View Post
                  JuhaV & MParallel, what oil and service intervals are you doing?
                  Castrol 10W60 "M" oil with 7000-8000 km intervals.

                  I have been lately thinking whether this really is the best oil for this engine. Especially when cold, the oil pressure in Vanos much be rather extreme ?

                  I had the con rod bearing shells changed at about 95000 km as a precaution. The original ones were in perfect shape, no signs of any unusual wear.

                  Before reaching 90 C oil temp, I try not to go over 3000 rpm. When hot, they yes !!!
                  The older I get, the faster I was ...
                  BMW HP2 Sport
                  ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    S50? Then no. Never was, never will be. I explained in another post yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've always run my S50 on 10/60. Had it 10yrs now bought on 90k, done about 50,000miles in it including many many trackdays. Never touched the vanos. [touches wood].

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Some seem to last longer. It's a hit and miss thing.

                        Still wonder why people put 10w60 in this engine, when no one, certainly not BMW has ever recommanded it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MParallel View Post
                          Some seem to last longer. It's a hit and miss thing.

                          Still wonder why people put 10w60 in this engine, when no one, certainly not BMW has ever recommanded it.
                          But BMW will formalise oil recommendations when the engine is in design and pre-production, so this would be early 1990s. The TWS 10/60 was never retro-specified for the S50 per se, but that also doesn't necessarily mean it can't be used. It was for the S54 though, which had a higher rev limit, to try and solve the bearing issue, previously 5/30 - so arguably a larger change in viscosity than an S50 from 5/40 to 10/60.

                          Certainly in the context of vanos, most failures would have been within warranty for the E36 M3 EVO when the vanos issue reach infamy and they weren't running 10/60...
                          Last edited by c_w; 15-11-2015, 05:40 PM.

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                          • #14
                            10w60 was originally issued for the E39 M5 due to high oil consumption.

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                            • #15
                              Not sure where that came from! But yes another engine with very wildly different oil specs that strengthens the case of using it in an S50 is not a major issue. M5 went to 5/30 and almost at the same time the M3 went to 10/60 - maybe they swapped due to stock issues

                              When I first got my car I used to run Mobil 1 0/40 in winter and 10/60 through summer, but now just use 10/60 all year round.

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