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KW V3 spring rates?

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  • #16
    The OEM rear springs measure 20 cms off the car and the KW springs measure 16 cms (and fit onto an adjustable perch) and both compress down to give the normal ride height. Although the KW rear springs are progressive (get stiffer with increase in load), I've calculated that when the MC is standing, the KW rear springs at that point have an effective spring rate of approximately 400lbs. Therefore, if you were to put a 700lb spring on the rear of the MC, what length would it have to be so that it couldn't fall out from the trailing arm yet allow appropriate lowering?
    /// Exdos ///
    "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

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    • #17
      Not sure, I would assume they assume you are using a short-stroke damper to suit the small droop limitation of the spring? In the photos they all look identical but like you say they must vary in length being linear.
      Last edited by c_w; 07-12-2011, 03:07 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Limbs View Post
        Thanks Guys,
        will explain what I'm up to when I have more time!
        The reason that I have been looking at this is to facilitate fitment of the deep dish 9.5" Apex ARC-8 rims on the front of my car. In order to stand any chance of getting them to fit, I need to raise the the lower spring perch of my KW V3s above as much as possible, certainly above the rim and most of the way towards the top of the tyre. This will enable the wheel to be mounted closer to the strut.

        I can gain a fair bit by designing new upper spring seats and using a 2" long helper spings in lieu of the original 80mm ones, but I was also thinking of using a 6" long main spring in lieu of the original 170mm ones. The trouble is that the 6" springs will have less travel before they become coil bound, so the rate will need to be upped (hence the original question). As the poundage is increased the coil bound length is increased and also the length that the spring will be with the vehicle at rest, so the amount of height that I will gain will be eroded - a vicious circle!!

        I hope that I might be able to get away without changing the main spring, but I'll need to get further down the road before I'll know - I think that the next step is to get some wheels!!
        2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
        1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
        2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
        Lots of Land Rovers!
        No wife or kids!!

        Comment


        • #19
          As the photo of my KW V3 front suspension shows, the helper spring is fully compressed when fitted on the damper, and the two springs and the purple fittings form a "tube" of a fixed diameter, which lies parallel to the wheel.

          Even if you were to remove the helper spring altogether, I still think that the main spring would be adjacent to the tyre and you'd have rubbing unless you have sufficiently wide spacers.

          /// Exdos ///
          "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

          Comment


          • #20
            Redesigning the upper spring seat will allow me to raise the lower perch by up to 30mm whilst keeping the ride height the same, changing the helper spring up to a further 23mm, shortening the main spring.......................

            The perch & spring don't need to be completely above the tyre as, using a 245 on the 9.5" rim will mean that it's slightly stretched, therefore not as close to the strut as the rim. Ideally I'll need to find some tyres that haven't got a "rim protector".

            Exdos, do you have any photos of the underside of your adjustable top mounts? The design of these will affect how much I can gain by redesigning the upper spring seat.
            2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
            1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
            2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
            Lots of Land Rovers!
            No wife or kids!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by exdos View Post
              I guess you still have the other wheel on the ground in that shot - the ARB holds the helper spring compressed!
              2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
              1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
              2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
              Lots of Land Rovers!
              No wife or kids!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Here's mine with the standard wheel/tyre fitted with a 5mm spacer:



                Here it is with the springs removed, the mounting plinth raised 55mm & the wheel spacer removed:



                In summary, the second photo shows the clearance with a 225 tyre mounted at ET41, so you can imagine the clearance that you will have with a 245 tyre mounted at ET30 - roughly the same!! ET30 is the 9.5" ET35 Apex rim with a 5mm spacer - this is what I estimate I will need to clear the strut, I will, obviously, only know for sure when I actually try a wheel on the car!!
                2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
                1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
                2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
                Lots of Land Rovers!
                No wife or kids!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Limbs View Post
                  Exdos, do you have any photos of the underside of your adjustable top mounts? The design of these will affect how much I can gain by redesigning the upper spring seat.
                  I'm afraid that's one photo that I've never bothered to take. Basically the K-Mac adjustable top mounts consists of two plates, one with the bearing for the damper, and the other which determines the range of camber/caster and is "reversible" so that you've got two ranges of camber adjustments . These two plates fit above a circular piece of metal which hold the three bolts which attach the damper to the strut tower. It's a relatively agricultural piece of kit but should stand the rigors of UK roads better than the much nicer looking alternatives.
                  /// Exdos ///
                  "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I have looked at them on-line and they do look good, where did you buy yours from?
                    2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
                    1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
                    2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
                    Lots of Land Rovers!
                    No wife or kids!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Limbs View Post
                      Here's mine with the standard wheel/tyre fitted with a 5mm spacer:

                      I will, obviously, only know for sure when I actually try a wheel on the car!!

                      Have you set that at the appropriate lowering?
                      /// Exdos ///
                      "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Limbs View Post
                        I have looked at them on-line and they do look good, where did you buy yours from?
                        I can't remember off the top of my head. I did most of my MC modding about 5 or 6 years ago. I'll see if I can dig out the paperwork for you tomorrow.
                        /// Exdos ///
                        "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by exdos View Post
                          Have you set that at the appropriate lowering?
                          The first photo was with the height set as I'm currently running it - approx. 330mm wheel centre to arch.

                          Originally posted by exdos View Post
                          I can't remember off the top of my head. I did most of my MC modding about 5 or 6 years ago. I'll see if I can dig out the paperwork for you tomorrow.
                          2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
                          1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
                          2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
                          Lots of Land Rovers!
                          No wife or kids!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Limbs View Post
                            I have looked at them on-line and they do look good, where did you buy yours from?
                            Found you the info. I bought them from http://www.iapdirect.com/product.php...cat=400&page=1 and cost $364 including freight but excluding UK import duty. I see they've gone up in price since then.
                            /// Exdos ///
                            "Men who try the impossible and fail spectacularly are infinitely superior to those who reach for nothing and succeed" --Napoleon Bonapart

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thanks mate!
                              2000 Cosmos Black S50, Kyalami/Black interior, KW V3s, H&R ARBs, Supersprint exhausts, Apex ARC8s.
                              1996 Dark Aubergine Escort Cosworth Lux with leather, GGR 305 chipped, GGR/Koni suspension, Black Diamond discs.
                              2008 Orange/Black Westfield Megabusa, FW rear, Widetrack/Nitron Suspension, AP/Westfield 4 pots.
                              Lots of Land Rovers!
                              No wife or kids!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Good infos in this thread

                                I would love to mount something larger in front.. what are the downsides of running without helper springs? Noisy transition on jumps when spring gets fully released?

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