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'those things are lethal in the wet'

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  • 'those things are lethal in the wet'

    I've had my Coupe just a week now, and already I'm a little tired of 'armchair experts' warning me gravely "Oh no, not one of them, be careful in the wet..they're lethal!".

    I know the Coupe's unstable in the wet (I've now been told 100 times or more), but just how dire is the S50 in the rain? It's p1ssed down all week and I've been driving cautiously and slow, really really slow as I'm just waiting for the back end to spin out and kill me.

    Is it really as bad as all that even at low (and I mean, slower than every other road user) speed?

  • #2
    99% of the time they are fine but they can just step out unexpectedly even at low speeds. They seem to be very surface sensitive so a small bit of oil or something can be a problem. This only happened to me about 4 times in 20,000 miles. Each time it wasn't really due to excessive throttle either just a sudden change of grip on the surface.

    Just drive reasonably sensibly in the wet and you won't have an issue.
    Ex 2001 S54
    New cars:
    Lotus Carlton
    350Z

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    • #3
      This really winds me up....people saying they are lethal!!!. A few years ago there was no traction control, no ABS etc etc etc and people managed fine then. I laugh now when there are new cars with 60bhp with traction control, it will never be used it's just there because people have got it into their heads that every car needs all these "safety" mechanisms.
      Quite simply the MC is a front engined rear wheel drive car with a fair bit of power. Its perfectly within the realms of possiblity that people can drive sensibly without relying on electronic aids, it's just common sense. The MC isnt lethal it's just that people need to be aware of the cars capabilities and their own capabilities.
      Last edited by slider; 10-07-2009, 07:14 AM.

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      • #4
        Well I'm more than happy to drive her slow in the rain, but at some point this week I was passed by an 80 year old lady doing 35 on the dual carriageway and I thought 'maybe I'm taking this a little too far'.

        Would a change of tyres make a difference? I know in my previous car that changing from Potenzas to P-Zeros made a world of difference for grip in the wet.

        Thanks for the advice.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by slider View Post
          Quite simply the MC is a front engined rear wheel drive car with a fair bit of power. [...] The MC isnt lethal it's just that people need to be aware of the cars capabilities and their own capabilities.
          Exactly.

          One thing to watch out for is that you will get used to the car's power, and you'll find yourself using more of it without even thinking, until you find yourself coming off a tight roundabout "gently" (that is to say three quarter power in 2nd gear) in the wet and wondering why the car is going sideways

          It's not generally the really wet stuff that you've got to watch out for, though. In fact, you'll probably be surprised at just how much power you can get down in the wet. The times it'll surprise you are when it's damp, or cold, or they've been spreading shit on the roads because it's winter.

          I'd strongly recommend getting some training. I did a Car Limits days shortly after I got mine and found it very useful. It'll help get you to the point where feeling and catching the back end is a reflex, rather than something you have to think about.

          Paul

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          • #6
            Don't be ultra careful and just wait to be caught out at a time of the conditions and the MC's choosing as you inevitably over time up the ante. Explore the car's and your capabilites on your terms so you become familiar with where the limits lie. By this I mean find the opportunity on a wet or greasy surface where you can safely begin to push the grip limits and experience when she begins to let go. This doesn't necessarily mean spending on an off road session (though that is no doubt beneficial) but just finding the right time and place e.g. a deserted very big roundabout, an empty car park (not Sainsbury's an a saturday morning :-) ) or just a suitable stretch of road where you can experiment. Take it slow and easy at first and build up confidence and experience that will be invaluable in keeping you and your precious MC safe in real road conditions.
            Col N.
            Life is not a rehearsal !

            Porsche Cayenne S
            ex Audi S4 Avant
            ex 2001 S54 Titanium, Black
            ex Porsche 968

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            • #7
              And check that your rear tires have enough thread...
              ///M Coupe 2001 S54 Steel Grey - Paulo M.
              -------------------------------------------
              ----- Sporting Clube Portugal - Forever -----

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              • #8
                I know exactly where Wefail is coming from, at almost all trackdays or car events you get some nerd laughing about how twitchy "that's going to be today"....they usually eat their words when they see it being thrown into corners with virtually no twitchiness and great feedback about what's going on. Like everyone else says, they can obviously be a handful in the wet with an unsympathetic driver, but certainly no worse than the average (fairly sorted) RWD car.

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                • #9
                  Lethal in wet?!!!!!!!??? No

                  Its like all cars with rear wheel drive without namby pamby drive aids and some grunt. Treat them with respect and they will respect you. Don't and they will bite!!

                  Over the years I have driven and raced classics on old crossplys (now they can be lethal) and driven some very quick road cars and I would say the coupe is very predictable and a superbly balanced car.

                  In a nut shell I would say, dont be scared of her and drive her as hard as you and the road conditions allowand are comfortable with. You will then get a huge amount of enjoyment out of her.

                  Once you get used to her and her manners you will not want to drive anything else day to day!! Superb!!!

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                  • #10
                    I say smile and enjoy the "widow maker" reputation our cars have!!

                    I too got sick and tired of reading all the interweb reports about how there is never any warning and that it was an absolute certainty, that your Coupe would chuck you in to next doors county as soon as you try to drive round a bend in any weather beyond a Californian summer.

                    Having said that it does sometimes get a bit boring when the weather is really bad and the Coupe is nothing more than a rolling road block to all other road users in their 950cc shoppers, who can’t wait to get past you and on their way (well I seem to drive it like that at these times anyway) ;-)

                    My car can be twitchy at times and I find it is damp roads with a certain type of camber/surface. Leaving my work car park on to the main road I can guarantee to go sideways at 5 mph if the road is greasy and always have to get on early with the opposite lock at this junction!

                    But I do believe they can obviously bite and I always drive with this in mind and to the conditions of the road/weather.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pdwarren View Post
                      until you find yourself coming off a tight roundabout "gently" (that is to say three quarter power in 2nd gear) in the wet and wondering why the car is going sideways
                      Have you been stalking me?!

                      Only time I've had a near death experience in the MC was under these exact circumstances. It broke both ways and resulted in a lovely sideways drifting entry to the M8 slip road which gave the onlooking construction workers something to talk about! I still maintain there was oil.....

                      Another plus point that has not been mentioned yet is that, as far as 'lethal' cars go, it really is very manageable once you're in a slide.

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                      • #12
                        Thanks very much for all the invaluable advice. I'll take it all on board.

                        Nice dry day here today so my Father had come round to see the car, I took him out for a little run on the bypass and within the speed limit, opened her up. It took 30 minutes for the colour to come back to his face and for him to stop laughing.

                        The car's already paid for itself just to see his face afterwards. He's definitely a fan now.

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                        • #13
                          isn't the poor stability half the fun

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                          • #14
                            Pah! After driving Elises every day for 5 years (over 110,000 mile in all weathers, including slamming one headfirst into the armco on the M40 in the rain) my MC feels positively stable

                            Being smooth and gentle is the key. I have found that when things have started to slip it's been very progressive and confidence inspiring. When an Elise starts to go on a wet road you sh!t your pants as it happens quickly and is hard to catch, and your natural instinct is to lift off which just makes it worse. The MC feels balanced enough for me to not get that panic reaction and to ride it out - I'm not talking sideways heroics here, just the kind you can feel but people outside the car probably can't even see (if you know what I mean)

                            The only other car that I have driven with that same lovely "I bet I could do a lovely long power slide in this if I wanted" feeling was a 350Z

                            I loved the light and nimble feeling of the Elises and my old 7, but one of the other things about an MC in the wet is that its extra weight means you don't get the same twitches when changing lanes on wet motorways that I used to get in those - absolutely terrifying. Just be gentle with the throttle coming out of corners and keep the speed sensible in a straight line, though they won't aquaplane as easily as a lighter car so long as your tyres are in good nick
                            Last edited by twink; 10-07-2009, 05:05 PM.
                            www.tracking-shot.com

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                            • #15
                              Stability

                              wefail--on collecting my S50 from Selby in 2003 in the pouring rain with my run down to MK on the A1, I very soon got the feeling that all the roundabouts were skating rinks thanks to the hundreds of artics laying rubber and diesel.My car was a standard unmolested one, and arriving home a little drymouthed I started to ask some questions from the experts.

                              Always start off with small modifications, one at a time so you can know if something does improve your car, before moving on to the next stage.Sometimes the best mod is the simple one as in my case, a £120 strut brace in the engine bay which stops side movement, and keeps the front planted on the road and keeps the rear stable. All the other suspension goodies can come later and many on this forum will be better able to advise than I---- Enjoy!!!!.
                              safetyfast

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