water leaks on passenger side

[ukmax]

Hello all,

Well I got the car out of storage for the dry (lol) Summer months and this morning the passenger carpet is soaking wet. I remembered a post on here about the problem and I'm sure there were some photos but I can't find those now. It seems that I need to remove the scuttle cover to investigate so can anybody please tell me how to do this. I can see that the wipers need to come off and there sems to be some clips but I can't see how these are removed. There is also mention of drain tubes around the windscreen, can someone please indicate where these are.

"Spooks" posted the original question and then raised some further questions with regard to the seal between the screen and scuttle and also asked about the heater flaps http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showth...=passenger+wet but there was no further replies can anybody now answer these questions. Many thanks

[paulm3]

Its to do with the rubber gutter bits getting clogged up, heres the TIS online info on how to remove the front windscreen which shows the rubber surround bit. take them off and clean underneath so that the gutter bits are not clogged up, think this sorts it 9/10 times.

http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/01/54/59

[c_w]

On mine it was just running down from the windscreen between the scuttle and the scuttle panel and straight in to the car from the intake. Seems like a daft design but there must be a seal on the scuttle panel to stop this. The window and channels are clear and wouldn't stop the water running down espcially heavy rain/hosepipe type water as the channel can easily be overcome with water.

I'd say unclip the scuttle (don't need to remove the wipers as you're only lifting it a bit). Where the scuttle panel attaches to the scuttle run a bead of silicone sealant, concentrating on the centre section where the intake is. This stopped my leak straight away.

[Dave P]

old post with some more info,

http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showth...ght=water+leak

[ukmax]

Many thanks PaulM3 for your prompt reply but I don't really understand what you mean by "rubber gutter bits". Also are you suggesting that the windscreen needs to be removed to correct the water ingress problem?

[Dave P]

how to remove scuttle panel ,

http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/01/92/02

[ukmax]

Thanks again for the replies

Thanks for your suggestion CW but I'm not keen on using silicone sealant for various reasons, in particular because of the problems it can cause if refinishing is ever required on panels close to where silicone has been applied. In fact I used to use "Dum Dum" sealant but this has apparently been banned by the European Bureaucrats! I may try pinching a strip of thin rubber between the scuttle edge and the screen to act as a gasket to see if this prevents the problem and if so, I can work on a better gasket/seal solution.

Has anyone determined exactly where the water gets into the car? I also have a couple of Jaguar XJS's, which are renown for water leaks and one of these is in the plenum (scuttle) when the drains from the plenum itself get blocked. The water then pours out of the lower heater outlets and soaks the driver's or passenger's feet, especially when cornering! - trench foot was a common illness suffered by XJS owners/passengers

Dave p, the post that you kindly linked mentions and "internal" drain in the seal but I can't find how to get into this to clear it (if it is blocked) do you know how to do this? Thanks for the link to the scuttle removing operation, which refers to the expanding clips, do you know how to remove these?

Regards,

[c_w]

The air intake is right under the scuttle lip so water that passes between that and the scuttle cover just lets water drip into that which drops straight down and usually gives a drip in the corner of the passenger footwell.

Something like a foam sticky tape on the scuttle panel will probably work also if you don't want to use sealant. I'm sure that is what is there originally? Maybe it needs refreshing.

[Dave P]

Thanks again for the replies

Dave p, the post that you kindly linked mentions and "internal" drain in the seal but I can't find how to get into this to clear it (if it is blocked) do you know how to do this? Thanks for the link to the scuttle removing operation, which refers to the expanding clips, do you know how to remove these?

Regards,

sorry I have never tried this myself.

the clips look like this,
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showphoto.do?id=51718195811


so may just come apart or can only be used once and need repacing?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...89&hg=51&fg=20

[ukmax]

I've got the fasteners out okay (the clue was in the description i.e. "expansion" fasteners) They are in two halves, one half has a square pin which is pushed in and spreads the fastener's double "barbed" end once inserted. Gentle prising with a screwdriver and then with a trim-clip lifter removes the pin and then the remaining half of clip can be removed, also with a trim-clip lifter.

Now I've had a good look in the scuttle area I can see what it's all about. The plastic scuttle cover does indeed have a seal to seal it to the windscreen and this comprises of a bead of non-setting (remains tacky) sealant in a channel along the entire length of the part. The scuttle has two large diameter rubber drain tubes draining water to the "outside world" via the engine compartment and they are quite capable of handling large quantities of water. Because of the drains, any water running into the scuttle should not be a problem and leaks between the plastic scuttle trim and windscreen would not be a problem either, except in the centre section, where any water running through here would go into the heater section (more so if the "fresh air flaps" were open) and thus eventually into the car.

The above mentioned sealant in the scuttle cover has not been making proper contact with the windscreen along it's entire length and requires renewing and I also removed a few leaves and other debris from the scuttle drains. I hope that this action will should solve the problem.

[Spooks]

What do you think is the right sealant though?

I put some silicone sealant on mine before i understood the problem and whilst it fixed it for a little while, it reacted with the scuttle plastic and warped it!

I have a new scuttle ready to fit but want to work out the right sealant and where to apply before i fit it.

[ukmax]

There are two main types of mastic non-setting windscreen sealant, one which forms a skin when exposed to air but still remain "plastic" beneath the skin and the other remains tacky as well as remaining plastic. Different products of the latter group vary from very sticky, like the proverbial "brown stuff" that sticks to a blanket! to lightly tacky like (say) a Post-it note. It seems to be the lightly tacky version that BMW use on the cover and it may even be preformed mastic strip rather than that applied by a gun. I'm going to contact a manufacturer for advice tomorrow and I'll post the result here.

[Spooks]

Great, keep us posted.

I rang my local dealer but got put on hold and got bored waiting, would be best off popping in to ask what they would use.

[c_w]

Told you


If you want a non-sticking sealant use the 3M stuff like as is used in the battery tray. I forget what it's called but its like a butyl tape/

[ukmax]

I spoke to a company today about their product called 'Arbomast Autograde' which is a non-setting oil based sealant. It does form a skin on surfaces exposed to the air but would remain tacky on any surface stuck on to glass or plastic or similar. I should have some by the end of the week so I will test and report back.