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BMW Z3 M Roadster S50B32-problem with the position of the exhaust camshaft

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  • BMW Z3 M Roadster S50B32-problem with the position of the exhaust camshaft

    Hello everyone!
    VANOS was rebuilt in Dr.Vanos, but the engine does not run smoothly, no full power, it consumes too much fuel, a detonation from the muffler and exhaust camshaft is at 9 degrees instead of zero ...
    When the exhaust cam set at zero degrees, remains in that position only until the engine starts ...
    I measured the oil pressure at idle VANOS and he is 100 bar, and when you add gas to about 3000-4000 rpm then it is about 90 bar ...
    At diagnosis throws error computer (ECU) ...
    Does anyone know what could be the problem?Solenoids-circuit wiring, badly fitted VANOS,or something else?
    Thanks!
    Last edited by Z3 M roadster; 05-04-2014, 01:45 PM.

  • #2
    M

    What, nobody knows anything?

    Comment


    • #3
      Loads of info on vanos problems but not sure if your fault is mentioned,

      http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/tags.php?tag=vanos

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like you need to speak to Dr Vanos, assuming they installed it? Is easy to setup the timing incorrectly when installing the Vanos. Although sounds more like a vanos solenoid issue.

        One of my solenoids went and threw out the idle completely once the car had warmed up. There is a resistance and circtuit check you can do on them.

        Paul

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        • #5
          Had my vanos rebuilt by Steve..MR VANOS....i would give him a call he is a very helpfull chap and mobile....worth a try..

          Comment


          • #6
            @Z3 M roadster

            Hello

            I am having exactly the same problem, and I cannot diagnose it. Solenoids are all checked and working fine. Vanos is rebuilt with new beisans seals, so there are no leaks. Pressure is OK.

            If you have any new/progress/resolved...please, let me know.

            Regards,

            Rudi

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            • #7
              Worth checking the camshaft sensor connector.
              I changed half of the sensors and parts, only to eventually finding out connector was dirty and not plugged all the way.

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              • #8
                Hi,

                When the VANOS is serviced by completely removing it from the engine together with the pistons/splined shafts, I understand that you can rather easily screw up the camshaft timing. It is the splined shafts that lock the camshafts together with the camshaft sprockets.

                See http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

                If there are no error codes, perhaps you need to check the camshaft timing ?
                That I understand will be adjusted by rotating the sprockets in relation to the cams. There are long adjustment holes for that.

                This was theory. Have not (yet) done that myself.

                br, JuhaV
                The older I get, the faster I was ...
                BMW HP2 Sport
                ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi again,

                  Sorry to use this threat but this relates to Vanos timing and perhaps is therefore relevant. I underline that I have not yet done this myself but I am going to do this during the winter as I just acquired a serviced Vanos replacement unit.

                  I would much appreciate any comments and further guidance from those who have “already been there”.

                  In my current, original unit I am running already a third set of the solenoid O-rings and now again they start to show some leaking. The last set has been the upgraded Viton set and it worked about 3 years and 25 tkm. The car has a total of 110 tkm on it. The Vanos is also showing some other symptons which lead to the decision to deal with it now in order to have a problem free next summer (track) season. During starting the idle is sometimes very rough for first 3-5 seconds and then smooths out to become normal. This symptom is more severe when the engine is hot. I think that this may have to do with the Vanos oil pump not providing full oil pressure in the start and/or the Vanos piston seals leaking/sticking.

                  Before putting on the serviced unit (the one I acquired is serviced supposedly by BMW Rolls Royce), I might still open that unused unit up and check whether it carries those improved S62 vanos solenoids O-rings that are not only made from Viton but also have multiple facets to improved sealing. In addition, I will put on high strength bolts to hold down the solenoid covers.

                  However, now to the actual topic. I have tried to outline the Vanos replacement procedure when taking out the complete Vanos unit (together with the splined shafts) and then putting in a new complete unit. There is A LOT of details for this procedure given by Beisan ( http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm ) and more in TIS.

                  At least for me the challenge is that it is easy to be lost in all of those details if not understanding underlying main principles related to the cam timing. Thus below I have tried to extract the main items affecting the timing adjustment as far as I have understood them. Please do rectify where necessary.

                  My current understanding on the main phases of the procedure is the following:

                  - there is no need to take out the timing chain nor to release its tension for the Vanos removal and installation
                  - however to release the splined shafts from the timing sprockets and camshaft female sprockets, the camshaft sprocket bolts need to be loosened so that the spline shafts can be pulled out from the tight hold of those females ( http://www.z3mcoupe.com/forum/showpo...81&postcount=3 )
                  - the challenge is that when you loosen up those sprocket bolts, the timing adjustment will become affected as now the sprockets can rotate in relation to the sprocket “cores” which further are linked with the camshafts through the Vanos shaft splines. So first you free up the sprocket – sprocket “core” adjustment and later when you extract the Vanos splined shafts you also free up the sprocket core – camshaft connection.
                  - in order to pull out the Vanos, the Vanos position need to be full retracked, i.e. the splined shafts pulled fully into the Vanos. This can be done by cycling electrically the solenoids and pushing pressurized air into the Vanos (there is a BME tool for this) or if such tool is not available, this can be done “manually” by first removing the solenoids and thus freeing up the oil pressure in the unit and then rocking the cams back and forward to push the splined shafts back into the Vanos unit
                  - after all this the Vanos unit can be removed (all bolts and other obvious stuff removed first)

                  In nutshell, the unit can be removed rather easily but it should be done in certain position of the “adjustment” and the timing sprocket “adjustment” bolts loosened up.

                  Now, when putting back the unit we need to take care of the timing adjustment to a certain degree. The system allows for a slight non-alignment because the Vanos uses those Vanos position sensors to read out the timing position from the sensor wheels behind the sprockets : http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu...s/image099.jpg

                  If the basic timing is too much out of range, then the adjustment range is not enough to compensate for such misalignment. These tools are used to check the alignment : BMW camshaft alignment bridge (83-30-0-491-085), BMW camshaft alignment bridge pin (83-30-0-491-086), BMW crankshaft locking pin (83-30-0-490-861).

                  Both the inlet and exhaust cam have radial holes that are used to align the cams with the aforementioned tools. The bridge defines the “radial” alignment and the alignment pin is dropped into the hole in cam. If this can be done so that the bridge rests evenly on the head, then the alignment of the cams is ok. This alignment is to be done at TDC (crankshaft locked into TDC using the specific pin for the purpose).

                  When putting back the Vanos, the following needs to be taken into account :
                  - crankshaft at TDC and cams aligned with the bridge tool
                  - exhaust and inlet exhaust hubs (accepting later the Vanos splined shafts) need to be rotated fully clockwise – this important as they will be rotated anti-clockwise later in order to align them with the slanted splines of the Vanos shafts (http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu...s/image114.jpg )
                  - Vanos splined shafts are pushed fully into the unit before next installation steps
                  - Inserting Vanos splined shaft non-slanted ends into exhaust and inlet cams by rotating the shafts themselves to become aligned with the female parts of the cams (do not allow the cams to rotate)
                  - Inserting Vanos further towards the engine so that you can insert the slanted splines into the exhaust and inlet hubs (http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu...s/image120.jpg )
                  - The critical part is this : Carefully rotate the sprocket hubs anti-clockwise so that the splined shafts will meet up the first available alignment of the hub lines. Push the Vanos fully in ensuring that on exhaust side the Vanos oilpump drives pins are aligned properly.
                  - Tighten up the camshaft hub adjustment bolts (these were loosened up in the beginning when taking out the Vanos)
                  - Button up everything according to Beisan and TIS instructions
                  - Re-check cam timing at TDC

                  After this theoretical study, I think the most critical phase were one can mess up with the timing are :

                  1) The cams were not aligned properly at TDC to the correct position to accept the Vanos
                  2) When mating the Vanos hub females and the Vanos shaft slanted part of the splined shaft, the original position of the hubs (fully clockwise) was incorrect and/or the hubs were rotated more than the minimum needed to align the splines.

                  Hopefully I did not mess anything up above. Please align and correct me where necessary and do not harm your engines with these guidelines.

                  br, JuhaV
                  The older I get, the faster I was ...
                  BMW HP2 Sport
                  ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for sharing your research that is very helpful. There are a couple of guys selling the cam alignment tools on eBay at the moment for around £50 which seem ttb be an essential piece of kit from your findings. Like most things I think once you have done this job and are more conversed in what procedures to follow it is probably an easy job to do as long as you are methodicle in your approach.

                    Food for thought as I have been thinking of doing this job myself for sometime.
                    Aceman

                    Arctic Silver Z3MR

                    Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
                    ///M Badge Refurb available HERE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                      There are a couple of guys selling the cam alignment tools on eBay at the moment for around £50 which seem ttb be an essential piece of kit from your findings.
                      I ordered this set : http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E34-E36-...item339674fb00

                      During the winter, when I get into this job, I will first check out the tool by locking the crank at TDC and then using the cam timing lock tool to see whether both inlet and exhaust cam locking pins can be dropped into place.

                      If so, it means that the tool is ok as well as my current cam timing is ok.

                      I will also propably make the switches needed to drive solenoids manually and test the Vanos movement using pressurized air. This allows to drive the adjustment from max retard to max advance while engine not running. That tool seems to be basically just two on-off-on electric switches in a box with correct plugs to plug it into Vanos.

                      br, JuhaV
                      The older I get, the faster I was ...
                      BMW HP2 Sport
                      ex- BMW Z3 M Coupe - Cosmosschwartz Metallic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes that is one of the ones I have seen the other being an aluminium bridge from a guy in Ireland.

                        Keep us posted I would be very interested to hear how you get on.
                        Last edited by Aceman; 06-10-2014, 04:51 PM.
                        Aceman

                        Arctic Silver Z3MR

                        Rocking seats ? You need seat bushes click HERE
                        ///M Badge Refurb available HERE

                        Comment

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