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  #11  
Old 23-12-2008, 04:41 PM
CG_731 CG_731 is offline
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Hi Everyone, Chris (DrVanos) here.

Here are the basic details of the Euro vanos kits;

The S50B32 vanos is the most complex unit of the bunch (including the E46 M3 and E39 M5 units), and probably has close to 100 individual parts. There is an oil pump on the back of the unit that is driven by the exhaust cam gear, which pressurizes the oil to about 100bar, regulated by a pressure regulating valve inside the vanos. The hydraulic pressure drives the two splined gears (there's only 1 gear on the S50B30 unit) and the solenoid packs control the flow of the pressurized oil. It's a fairly complex system, but well designed as long as the seals and O-rings do their job. Unfortunately, these will harden over time and the high oil pressure overcomes the failed seals, causing the vanos to stop working properly.

I fully tear down and clean every part of the vanos and rebuild it with all new seals, O-rings, gaskets, filter, and several other small parts that are prone to fail or wear out. Nothing out of the ordinary really, but the new seals are made from a much better quality material so they will last much longer than the stock parts. The oil pump is cleaned and checked as well. There are no less than 16 O-rings and seals that get replaced, and yes those along with the small bolts, gaskets and other bits add up to something like 35 parts (RTV not included. ).

The splined gears that attach to the back of the vanos (which have bearings inside) are also rebuilt and the bearing assembly machined to bring the bearing tolerances back to a proper specification. This, in combination with the new internal seals will address the awful rattling noises these units can make. New gears and sprockets are NOT required....

In fact, if you were to spend the £700 on new gears and sprockets from BMW it would NOT guarantee to fix the rattling because they don't actually 'wear out' as some might think. These gears and sprockets are hardened (heat treated) to a very, very high specification. I had some parts tested at a local heat treating company on a very expensive testing machine and they measured almost off the chart. Even the engineers were a bit surprised at the level of hardness that was measured. So the theory that the gears begin to wear out after a while and need to be replaced is totally untrue. I would expect them to survive a small explosion, in fact. ;)

Finally, the solenoids (with fresh O-rings installed) are bench tested with compressed air using the special BMW tools required to activate them. This ensures everything is working properly before shipping the vanos out. If a solenoid does not work, then it would need to be replaced with a new one from BMW at additional cost, but that is rare.

The complete process is a tedious job, and takes a fair amount of time to clean and rebuild both the vanos unit and the splined gears.

Removal and installation of the Euro vanos and splined gears from the engine is reasonably complex, so a knowledgeable BMW shop is highly recommended. When you remove the splined gears, the cams are no longer directly connected to the crank and the timing could accidentally be affected when reinstalling the vanos. Some special tools are also needed.

I recently had a customer in France send me his before/after videos of his installation. You can view the video on our website, or at the link below...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSfbOYRjfjQ

He was very happy to say the least!

Unfortunately with these Euro spec units, they are very hard to find used. I am slowly building up inventory but it will take some time. If anyone knows of a source for even 1 or 2 of these units, any condition, please let me know.

I can supply the vanos up front but you may be on a waiting list. Right now the best option is to send your vanos to us for the rebuild. Turn around time is just a day or two.

I hope that answers some questions, and I apologize for the lack of detail and info on the website. I am trying to add more content and info whenever I get a chance. Feel free to email me if you have further questions.

-Chris

Last edited by CG_731; 24-12-2008 at 12:58 AM.
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  #12  
Old 23-12-2008, 06:54 PM
ever88 ever88 is offline
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thanks for input on this everyone.

I introduced the thread to see if the removal of the vanos was a viable option with hopefully minimal impact to lower end rpm but see that CG 731 (DR Vanos) suggests the repair is better. My vanos is not broken but I do think it's on the vocal side when dropping down from revs (fussy nature I'm afraid)

I'm not disputing the repair method but are now confused a little on a couple of points perhaps you could clarify.

The noise/ rattle has not been attributed to anything in your reply i.e is it the worn gears etc and secondly, if you machine a worn gear by taking material off then how is it that will improve tolerances? taking material off increases tolerences surely.

by machining the gear you must also be deteriorating the surface hardness treatment that you praise BMW for obtaining also.

Can you clarify these points CG 731 please?

my engineering background at power plants involved me reconditioning valve spindles and such like by having them professionally welded/machined and then heat treated to obtain the hardness. This was megabucks to do.

just can't see how your comments so far solve this.

I also hope my comments are construe as antagonistic, I just wish to know how your repair solves things that's all. this is not a personal attack.

any more thoughts on the removal of vanos kit also?
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  #13  
Old 23-12-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ever88 View Post

any more thoughts on the removal of vanos kit also?
Although I have an S54 rather than a S50, my datalogging shows that the performance of the engine is pretty much the same throughout the entire rev range, which must be largely attributable to variable valve timing from the Vanos? Would you agree?

If you delete the Vanos, would you not optimise the performance in a narrow rev range to the detriment of overall performance? How would your MC perform in speed restricted traffic conditions?
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  #14  
Old 23-12-2008, 10:09 PM
fastdrive fastdrive is offline
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umm see the video,seems my car make the sound after not before.
I consider lucky at this point,my car had 75.000km no vanos rebuild.
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  #15  
Old 23-12-2008, 10:46 PM
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Well after DrVanos's magic it certainly sounds brilliant, but at what cost??
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  #16  
Old 23-12-2008, 10:54 PM
ever88 ever88 is offline
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I think your right John

losing the vanos might/should put a small hole in the performance lower down but I was just posing the question and curious as to just how much the effect it would be versus eliminating a wear issue.

my vanos is pretty quiet I've been told but in my heart of hearts I can dial into the noise and once I do that it tends to be a fatal mistake and I listen out for it all the time like some paranoid fool.

if the effect or removing is small, Then I personally would be happy to do away with it. I have read about people just disconnecting things but then you really are losing out on performance at the top end.

just thought that the vanos issue seems to reappear often then someone may have put up with a loss lower down but improved things with better cams and vanos removal altogether.

by the lack of response from such perhaps I have my answer already.
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  #17  
Old 23-12-2008, 11:10 PM
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Fixing the vanos isnt the end of the world, I'd forget it until you need to sort a problem - even then in the scheme of things (your car was 40k ish new) it's not a big issue.

Messing with your engine might cost you more
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  #18  
Old 24-12-2008, 12:57 AM
CG_731 CG_731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ever88 View Post
I'm not disputing the repair method but are now confused a little on a couple of points perhaps you could clarify.

The noise/ rattle has not been attributed to anything in your reply i.e is it the worn gears etc and secondly, if you machine a worn gear by taking material off then how is it that will improve tolerances? taking material off increases tolerences surely.

by machining the gear you must also be deteriorating the surface hardness treatment that you praise BMW for obtaining also.

Can you clarify these points CG 731 please?
To clarify, the machine work is NOT on the gears themselves, but on the internal bearing assembly, which itself has loose tolerances. Yes, I realize it does not make sense to machine material away and end up with a tighter tolerance, but without giving away proprietary information, the bearing assembly tolerance can in fact be reduced by some basic machining. You just have to think outside the box a little.

This directly affects the rattling noise, and can reduce it considerably.
I use this procedure on all of our vanos units (close to 400 now) with repeatable results, so while I understand your concern, I assure you it is not something I just made up.

Again, the hardened gears are not modified in any way, only the bearings inside. I have reworded my previous post slightly to clarify this.
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  #19  
Old 24-12-2008, 08:42 AM
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simon768622 simon768622 is offline
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Chris, thanks very much for the info
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  #20  
Old 24-12-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CG_731 View Post
Yes, I realize it does not make sense to machine material away and end up with a tighter tolerance, but without giving away proprietary information, the bearing assembly tolerance can in fact be reduced by some basic machining. You just have to think outside the box a little.
Exactly. Just machine out a larger hole and then fit a new "core" into the larger hole which has much tighter tolerances. Simple!
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